Subud Life

General Chat - conservative??
moonlight - Mar 14, 2003 - 06:22 PM
Post subject: conservative??
this is a real story that happened to me some days ago. I`m moonlight. My Subud friend is the "evil". Sorry friend! he he
Evil or Very Mad - "Your ideas about sex seem to be conservative, moonlight".
Rolling Eyes - "My ideas, why?"
Twisted Evil " because you are out of date and old fashioned. Relax! You are too serious!"
Rolling Eyes "But they aren`t MY ideas at all! They are Bapak`s and prophets`s advices!! "
Evil or Very Mad "Hmpf! Just be you, enjoy life! The Latihan is what is really important in your life"

----well...... if I`m making a big effort to act following Bapak`s advices, and if I`m really ignorant about sexual aspects, am I an old fashioned member if I really try to put those ideals and truths into practice????? mmm.... I`d say I`m original in these days! ---------

I`d appreciate the opinion of people who also try to put into practice those ideals. Is there anyone??
lorenzo - May 14, 2003 - 03:51 PM
Post subject:
I think it's probably a good idea to take heed of Bapak's advice regarding the sexual aspect of life, but also that it's vital for you to feel things for yourself rather than base your decisions on other peoples advice. Surely the fact that we can responsiblity for our own lives through our own experience in the latihan is what differs us from other religious + spiritual groups?

It sounds like you need to do some testing Wink
LucasAdamson - May 14, 2003 - 08:37 PM
Post subject:
There is an dangerous and barely mentioned amount of sexual guilt in Subud, much like in Catholicism, and in my view it is due to one thing:

Taking on a series of rules and advice that is only understood on an intellectual level, but not felt within. Bapak said a lot of things, and gave lots of advice, and sometimes he gave this advice very strongly, but he also said not to take it on unless you feel the truth of it for yourself. The reason, I believe, that he said this is that, if you take it on without really feeling compelled to by your soul, you will end up repressed or bitter, and Subud will be on it's way to becoming another dogmatic religion.

A little yellow booklet called "Bapak's Advice on Sex and Marriage" really scared the shit out of me a few years ago.

So, I really agree with Lorenzo. I think sleeping around is.. well, let's just say it ain't for me. Cohabitation, however, might just be marriage by another name.

Lucas
helenh - Dec 01, 2006 - 02:13 AM
Post subject:
I agree very much with LucasAdamson here. The most important is that you do what's right for you and not do what others are doing.
I remember way back in Subud all the frustrated young men looking for a wife running from congress to congress. LOL Laughing
Sleeping around as so many do to day only confuses your soul, you inner identity but to marrying for the reason of having sex can destroy your life so can marrying before you are ready also be, in spit of it being with the right person. Maybe better to have a bit of things going on under the duvet before you tie the knot. Wink
I think it necessary to have a deep understanding of this matter, really feel what it all means and what is right for you and your partner.

If you have two glasses of coloured water, one red and one blue when you pour them together it will make purple, thats nice. But, think if you then add a glass of yellow or green and so on, then you end up with a glass of muddy grey water. iiiiiiikkkk not so nice.
greenlore - Dec 01, 2006 - 10:05 AM
Post subject:
Frankly, I've never understood the modern obsession with sex. I guess I'm just old fashioned... Smile
MahmudHenry - Dec 04, 2006 - 05:21 PM
Post subject:
Having grown up surrounded by in it, I think I do understand the modern obcession with sex. It's mostly caused by the commercialisation of our society that has robbed us of culture, so we grow up without self restraint. It's also very true that sexual frustration is a very bad reason to marry in a rush.

But at the same time I don't think having "a bit of things going on under the duvet before you tie the knot" is a solution. After all, that's a big reason people get into the mess of premature marriage in the first place! We humans are naturally fickle and easily prone to falling in love with a person we have sex with, even if we promise ourselves not to before hand. Especially us Subudians as the latihan makes our feelings a little too open sometimes. I'd say it's safer to take care of our frustration under the duvet with the help of a magazine.

Smile
helenh - Dec 04, 2006 - 06:16 PM
Post subject:
Quote:
"a bit of things going on under the duvet before you tie the knot" is a solution.
I will generally agree to this but what I mean is if you are engaged to be married its better with a bit hmmm hmmm than to rush into marrying your loved one. Even if you have found your "right" partner it can be a right time for the marring too. That commitment can be a strain on the relationship if it's done before you are ready.
What I actually want to say is don't get in to bad feelings and guilt, that certainly can kill a relationship.

Everyone probably has to do what's right for them in any matter and nobody should intentionally make anybody guilty for anything, that's really not our business.

Quote:
It's mostly caused by the commercialisation of our society that has robbed us of culture, so we grow up without self restaint.
This is very true. Media has strong influents on social behaviour and structure, that's shown becomes the norm. Advertising, reality shows and other entertainment goes way too fare today, when you think they have reach the limit, they keep going. I am quite shocked sometime and sad when I stumble over "from Ibiza" TV program and a like.


Quote:
I'd say it's safer to take care of our frustration under the duvet with the help of a magazine.
Well hmmmmmm, it was something about these magazines. Cool Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
benjamingarzon - Dec 06, 2006 - 05:09 AM
Post subject: sexy feelings
Lately I've been trying to become much more serious about relationships in order to be more coherent with the things I believe or have felt inside, after going through a bit of crazy moments out there.

I feel that in Subud we have some members that have had true revelations of the importance of Sex and how serious it is. Nevertheless, there are a lot of bad anecdotes in which other members, especially young members, have been made to feel really guilty for doing things that "Bapak said" they were wrong.

Bapak also mentioned that our feelings wake up with the latihan, and sometimes the sexual feeling could wake up and express itself, so we can get to know it.

I guess we have to trust our soul and ask God for protection so we can discover ourselves in a normal way, and perhaps it means that we have to get to know our wild sides in such a manner that we cannot control it that easily.

That's my point of view, and I really like this topic a lot, its vital for the future generations.

Laughing
Neven - Dec 06, 2006 - 11:50 PM
Post subject:
hmmm...
one shuld follow its own inner voice on this as well on other topics. me personaly, I am allways for the solution that will give more freedom to person in question to use it or abuse it, I cant tell in advance. I think sex is a wonderfull gift that has been given to us by god for purposes other than making offspring. otherwise we would be able to get exited only when a woman is fertile or woman would become fertile only when a man becomes horny wich than would probobly be somewhere on their weding night with "the right one".
healthy sex life is as important to me as a other healthy aditudes like exercise, or proper diet. I dont think we shuld try to repress that wich young children are also expiriencing. I had a sexual drive and inocent will to explore before I knew what to do with it, and I met others.
sexualy deviant behaviour comes from the clash of that what is natural(God given) with that what we are thought while wery young as we discover ourselfs for the first time in inocence.
children rightfuly have no shame of who they are and what their instincts are teling them but then we come (the parents) and teach them that there are parts of our bodies that are dearthy and we are not to tuch there. from then on we start to expirience guilt and shame and having our (together with poty training) first represive pseudo reflexes. (hope that is a corect term, english is not my first language)
no wonder that when we reach puberty that we go insane for that what has allways been forbiden even against our own inner knowlige. we than use our newfound rebelious freedom into selfdestructive ends.

like with anything else, sex is only bad if it is an adiction.
in adiction we have no clear vision or good head not to mention contact with devine.
but be mindfull of whom are you having it, for that person will leave its mark on you just as any interaction with anyone does. so much more potent will be this- the most intimate- interaction of the flesh and spirit.

to say on the end a line from one great book that I love to quote(something like this): "that of what we are most proud of we will bring forth for the world to see and the shamefull we will hide in the dark of closets.
...do we not hurt and kill, and hate in the streets in plain sight while that wich is the most sacred and beutifull in us and gives new life we lock behind walls and curtains."

... it made me think

hapy to write Laughing
MahmudHenry - Dec 16, 2006 - 12:02 AM
Post subject: Re: conservative??
moonlight wrote:
this is a real story that happened to me some days ago. I`m moonlight. My Subud friend is the "evil". Sorry friend! he he
  Evil or Very Mad  - "Your ideas about sex seem to be conservative, moonlight".
Rolling Eyes  - "My ideas, why?"
  Twisted Evil " because you are out of date and old fashioned. Relax! You are too serious!"
  Rolling Eyes "But they aren`t MY ideas at all! They are Bapak`s and prophets`s advices!! "
  Evil or Very Mad "Hmpf! Just be you, enjoy life! The Latihan is what is really important in your life"

----well...... if I`m making  a big effort to act following Bapak`s advices, and if I`m really ignorant about sexual aspects, am I an old fashioned member if I really try to put those ideals and truths into practice?????  mmm.... I`d say I`m original in these days! ---------

I`d appreciate the opinion of people who also try to put into practice those ideals. Is there anyone??


I think moonlight deserves a more supporting response, however late.

I think following Bapaks advice out of a feeling of love is a very good thing. Our Latihan is the most important thing, but if we are continuously shoveling dirt onto ourselves, it will only ever be purification, and our souls won't have the opportunity to grow.

Is wanting to avoid casual sex conservative? No, I don't think it is. It's not a political act, it's exercising a private freedom not to do something you don't want to do because you think doing it would be bad for you. When one of us, as a Subudian, choose to be chaste for a period of our lives, it's an expression of our freedom, arising from our individuality, worthy of admiration!

Love and peace,  Cool
Neven - Dec 17, 2006 - 10:21 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: conservative??
it seems that I just flew in with the reply without...atention. my excitment got the better of me.
choosing for your self away from the mass is a anusual and brave thing.
Thank you for this honest expresion Moonlight
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