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General Chat - Why do 'I' do the latihan?

HarunKennedy - May 03, 2003 - 01:12 PM
Post subject: Why do 'I' do the latihan?

Why do 'I' do the latihan?

How often do We/I actually ask anything like this?

How much is life about routine, and how much is it about a constant challenge to be and do.....

Life and human beings are so very complex. People come from many very different places, and yet we all seem to meet somewhere in a shared reality.

Without this becoming an intellectual bat and ball, I want to see if we can openly share why we do the latihan and how much we manage to realise our latihan both in doing it and doing it outside of going quiet and receiving - in our everyday lives.

So lets share away:

I am 26 and was opened at 17. I was effectively brain washed, it seemed the right thing to do, a natural progression of my primary socialisation. I can't say I have had a defining receiving or revelation that helps me to see/feel the reality of the latihan. At about 19 I guess I went through a sense of major doubt and adjusted myself to an independent realisation of why I do the latihan. Yet I cannot say with any real certainty why I continue to do it.

Much of the time I don't mange to place/surrender my thoughts and anxieties about life when I do my latihan. This is essentially where I am at after nearly 10 years. I put faith in the power of something greater than my head to be working on me regardless, and when I do manage to relax and find a regular sense of quiet then the latihan will be able to enter every facet of my being.

Until then, in many ways, it is the quality of my life, the ideas, deep feelings that shape my being and view(s) of the world, that guide me in a sense of God in my life. I do feel very strongly something ticking/flowing existing about me. Its a strong and very ardent feeling. A sense of calm truth does envelope my being, but I still cannot say with any certainty or peace that I know of God, or any higher force. Perhaps there is the mind and intellectual being and then there is my feelings. Me Harun is amalgamation of the two. A controlled calm, and an effortless and natural reality.

All that I know for certain is that its a beautiful and long haul.

I reckon most people in Subud are not so very different. I am keen to find out what it is that is the energy or basis for why we do the latihan. Is it intellectual curisoity. A primordial sense of thirst and need to meet the essence of our being. Is it a need for direction. Is it a real drive. Is it a security mechanism. Is it because there is an imposing logic and I am fixed on a course of destiny... the list is probably endless.

Why do 'I' do the latihan?

LucasAdamson - May 03, 2003 - 03:28 PM
Post subject:

Thanks for starting this topic, Harun.

I personally do the latihan because, as a first generation Subud member, I have forund it to be enormously beneficial to my life. The really significant change I have noticed is that the latihan has "made" me a better person, moraly, I mean. I find that I instinctively refrain from wrong doing to a much greater extent than before, because I am now more aware of the pain it causes my soul (I can feel it, and it hurts more), because I am much more in touch with my soul. It was always there, and I used to betray it, and suffer from that betrayal, but it was the latihan that enabled me to realise the spiritual consequences of my actions and the significance my spiritual health has on my happiness. I still have a long way to go...

I came to Subud as a searcher of something intangible, and I was sure that the latihan was precisely what I had been searching for. The organisation of Subud is in principle very compelling, but I have found that there is a distinct danger of it ceasing to progress, which has been a danger in the world's great religions, as this can lead to fundamentalism. It is man who creates religions, and I can see in the organisation of Subud that this is an instinctive compulsion for many people. (It is quite exasperating for me when Bapak's words are reated as a rule book - worse still a rule book to berate others with, as this is incongruous with the spirit of the organisation in my opinion.)

I have, however, realised that, although the general advice is not to mix, and that the latihan encompasses all that we need to do, if done in the right way, to develop ourselves sufficiently, it has occured to me, or rather I have realised for myself that there is something incomplete about the latihan for many people, including myself. Although I regard the latihan as an essential and unique tool in this life, for improving the condition of the human spirit, I also have a sense that I need to look beyond Subud in an effort to grow and understand my life, and be happier in it. infact, I need help in putting the latihan to work in my life. For many, religion fulfils this function. I am personally finding that there are many psychotherapeutic, educational, possibly "new-age" alternatives to religion, that fundamentally preach from the same pulpit, but in a variety of ways, often more useable to modern man. Many members I know find reading "conversations with God" or "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" to be helpful. Others prefer "Psychology of Vision" courses, "The Landmark Forum course," or councelling." To some the value of these things is obvious, but for others, this might be seen as some kind of betrayal to the latihan, or else to God.

My own family, who are now mostly in Subud, experience again and again the same ancestral and karmic conditions which do not really belong to us as individuals. I personally find the idea of mixing (being involvement in other spiritual excercises) quite scary, and I can see the potential for harm and confusion. I have, however, found that therapies which centre around education of my psychological processes, which I am forced to abide with day in, day out, to be of enormous benefit, and I have found this to be a compatible counterpart to doing the latihan. Although the latihan is unique, in my experience, in that it effectively "removes" many unwholesome conditions within me, I feel that to become a person of value to God, I must develop myself outside of the latihan, and not create a future for myself so heavily influenced by the experiences of my past.

Anyway, back to the subject: A major motive for me to regularly attend latihan is to socialise. I think that this is common amongst most members, particularly the young. If I were in an isolated group, I wonder how often I'd go. Probably less. I see no fault in using this as a motivation. When I'm in latihan, the motivation is gone - I'm just doing my latihan. The thing is that it is sometimes the thing that gets me on the train to get there, and I think it is folly for us as an organisation to ignore what I believe is a principal function of the organisation - to be socially strong, attractive and fun as an organisation.

I go because it's a habit too, and one that is a dominating part of my life. It keeps me from wondering off into the wilderness. If i am a blind man wondering through the noisy and confusing streets, then the Monday latihan is the beep of the pedestrian crossing; Thursday's latihan the wall to bang my stick against. Without it doesn't bare thinking about...

Lucas

Anonymous - May 09, 2003 - 09:13 PM
Post subject: WHY DO 'I' DO THE LATIHAN?

Just be realized that we've come to the world because of the Creature or something accidently ??? let us contemplate !!!

LucasAdamson - May 12, 2003 - 10:40 PM
Post subject:

Uh?

Anyway, come on everybody, why do YOU do the latihan?

Lucas

Anonymous - May 13, 2003 - 07:41 PM
Post subject: Why do you do the latihan ?

I gave you the answer already" just be realized that we have come to the world because of the God ! So that's mean ...in my opinion your question is incorrect ! you may ask manything about a job, music, animal and etc ..etc which related to the 4 lower forces in generally .
Like the babies ...they never ask " why do I do the latihan ?" and we passed already at that moment ...then have you still remember at that time you were asking something....and the answer is absolutely I don't think so because of your qustion ( topic ) came from your brain not from your jiwa !

LucasAdamson - May 13, 2003 - 09:31 PM
Post subject: Re: Why do you do the latihan ?

Anonymous wrote:

Why don't you register, or at least have the courtesy to sign a name (it doesn't even have to be your real one! It's very easy to "hit and run" on this type of forum, but more honourable to have courage in your comments and post your name by them.

I don't understand what you're saying, which leads me to think that you don't understand the original question. The question is simple - "Why do you do the latihan?" In other words, "What do you get out of it?" or "What is your motivation for doing the latihan?" Surely it's not a very accurate answer to say that you do the latihan because you were created by God. Otherwise, the whole world would do the latihan, which they clearly don't.

Perhaps you are being metaphysical in a way I haven't quite understood - perhaps you are using your head too much Wink

Lucas

HarunKennedy - May 13, 2003 - 10:53 PM
Post subject:

Thanks for your two responses Sergio.

You are right, it does come from my brain/mind/head. But I am human.

Human Beings as 'I' and 'Self', must and do - to whatever degree - pose these kinds of questions. If we were pure spirit, then we would not take on organic form.

Alternatively, if our Jiwa's were so developed/ or our ability to surrender and be intouch with our inner feelings were greater, then we would not need to ask these questions. Philosophising would be redundant for oneself. Minds thirst for answers to ease the intellectual questions one can pose would be quenched.

Yet I know that I am not at that point. I know that very few if any of us are. So in essence, in order for myself to find the motivation or the raison d'etre to do the latihan I must satisfy my mind to some degree.

With more peace and more surrender in my latihan as the years progress, and my sincerety takes on new dimensions then the yearning and questions will be resolved. But as a young man, and I guess as even an old man, I ask and will continue to ask different questions. Maybe still continue to question even, why I do the Latihan. Hopefully, a calm, peace and wisdom, which is tappable at any time from within, will be all apparent.

It is just every day is a struggle to find one's centre and to find one's quiet to be at one with God and serve out one's purpose(s) on this Earth.

Harun.

lorenzo - May 14, 2003 - 03:25 PM
Post subject:

Sergio, if that's your real name, perhaps it's better that you don't take part in a discussion if you don't have a very good grasp of the language it's being written in? Especially when it's such a deep and broad issue such as this one. I don't mean any offence, but it is mildly offputting to have rather strong statements written in a form of pigeon english!

Anyway, I think it's good that people are honest about this kind of issue, so we can help deal with it as a group of people who are all in the same boat in a world where persuit of spiritual matters can seem rather alien to the way most people live their lives.

The reason I first joined subud is that both my parents, and my step-parent are members of Subud, and I noticed from a young age something quite 'different' about them, like a spark that I didn't notice in other people, as if they seemed to be 'more alive'. It's difficult to describe as it's more of a feeling than something I thought about. When I turned 17 I joined Subud on this basis, and also because it just 'felt right', I always had a good feeling about it and just followed that feeling. As I have gone in with the latihan, I have definitely felt as if I have a 'life within a life', which really appreciates me doing the latihan. Whenever I miss the latihan for any length of time, I really get to know about it too, I feel much more heavy, and like I'm denying myself something I really need. This isn't to say that I've always been perfectly dilligent with the latihan at all times, as being a human being, I have let my thoughts + heart get in the way, 'no Lorenzo, you have far more important things to do!', I'm sure you all know the feeling! That feeling of heaviness associated with it though has always obliged me to return as soon as possible, feeling rather disappointed with myself for having been away for too long (the longest I've been away from it is a month, and boy did I feel awful then!)

I really appreciate that people are honest about these kinds of things , I think it's wonderful that these kind of issues that are very Subud-specific can be addressed somewhere!

and finally, Lorenzo asks that Sergio may forgive him for anything he has said that may have upset him. Wink

IrinaBoersma - May 25, 2003 - 01:39 PM
Post subject: Why I do the latihan???

.............Why do I do the latihan?

... a very good question that we all are trying to answer as good as possible. I find sometimes that it is a bit hard to put words on all the feelings the latihan brings up in me, but I am beginning to find out that the more I explain about the Latihan, and about Subud, the easier it gets.
So for my own sake, and also for sharing with others, here is why I do the latihan:

The last time I have truly felt the importance of my latihan. The last six months I have been working A LOT, and suddenly one day I felt that I was so beside myself that it was hard to do any of the things I used to do; play the piano, sing, go out with friends, paint, draw.
All I could do is workworkworkworkwork...
It felt terrible. I was doing latihan(for the first time in weeks) and I spontaneously felt the question come up "What can I do to get closer to myself again". I asked the question in my latihan(instead of testing about it afterwards) since it came so spontaneously. And I felt that I should go into the world, discover its beauty, take a lot of photos, draw, paint... And so I did.
A few days after that I quit my job, and went away for a month. I wen to Holland, to see friends, go to the national congress and visit family. When I sat in the train on my way to Amsterdam, I truly felt that I was FREEEEE, and that was great. I was able to enjoy every little thing along the way the beauty of a tree, holding a friends hand, singing a tune while playing guitar.... I had several days where I just enjoyed BEING IN THIS WORLD, and didn't worry about anything, no stress, no worrying about the future.
The latihan helps me find out what is good for me, and by doing all these things, I feel more relaxed and confident in myself.
I have been opened since last summer, and it took a while to discover how valuable the latihan really is. Funny, once again, you don't know what you've got till it's gone... not that I ever stopped doing latihan, but after a break you really get to appreciate it!

Merin - May 28, 2003 - 07:18 AM
Post subject:

I do the latihan to help my sanity - and for heaven's sake! Laughing

Samuel - Jul 13, 2003 - 09:43 PM
Post subject:

As being new to SubudLife I thought i might as well add my own opinion to the question.

I was opened "unofficially" (as they call it) Last June 17th when I awoke one night, and was spontaniously opened by God, (waking mum, dad and my brother in the process, by shouting 'forgive me Lord' at the top of my voice). After that I was "officially" opened on June 22nd. (feeling nothing of course when it happened).

Anyway back to the point, I think the main reason In why I do the latihan is to worship God, To thank God for creating me. It is to allow God to put right what is wrong within me, so i can become a better person.

Rush - Jul 17, 2003 - 09:45 PM
Post subject: why

I would first like to say that it's really great to hear all of the different views and a nice feeling to be a part of this.

I personally keep doing latihan because I have found that when I do latihan on a regular basis and as surrendered as I can be at this time in my life, I feel the growth inside of me pertaining to so many different aspects in my life. I also realize that there is so much more to learn that I don't want to stop and revert back to the begining again of re-learning how to get quiet and all that my inner is learning.

I had felt I was in this same process of growth some years ago and had stopped going to latihan for a time for many different reasons and now that I have been going back regularly, have really felt so thankful that there is this opportunity to really learn about life in all it's glory and how it is so easy to feel overwhelmed without the latihan. It simply is an exercise that when it's not used, I feel it takes you back (adds the weight back on) I have found it so important to really learn about the many different forces that are constantly there waiting to take part in thought processes and feelings to bring in the questioning, anxiety, laziness, depression, etc. and to learn how I personally react to all these things when I am not guiding myself from my inner is truly a blessing and what I beleive to be the ultimate way in living here on this earth.

I remind myself quite often how much greater the spiritual world is from this one and this keeps me going because it helps me to keep in check what I allow to upset me or take over my peace and patience...

I feel as though my senses are slowly being awakened and allows my interaction with others to go deeper, even if they aren't in Subud.

As far as going to the group for social reasons - it's definitely wonderful to see other people and our small group of mainly three doesn't really make it a social event rather, latihan for me is more profound in the group and I really feel that,that's the reason to go- I have found some members who attend church here in the U.S. quite dissappointed by the lack of social quality to our latihan group and thus are less inclined to go to the group to do latihan and I believe that it's the development of one's latihan that should be the deciding factor to go to the group - especially for new members. There are so many wonderful testings one can do with other group members to use as a guide for where we are and where God would like us to be in our process and what we can do to keep going. I don't mean at all to try to further ourselves faster than God's will but that testing is a wonderful tool to use, for example how our latihan is and where it could be. This is one rather great benefit to being in the group since testing alone can leave lingering questions....

I could go on forever! Wink

Thanks for the forum!

IrmaniDarlington - Oct 02, 2003 - 09:43 PM
Post subject:

Wow, what a topic. Thanks for posting this, Harun.

I was deeply ambivalent about Subud and the latihan as a teenager, having grown up in a Subud family. I really didn't see the relevance to my own life or who I was...

Then I met a lot of young people in Subud when I was 21 and thought that there was a very special quality about a lot of the people I met, and realised that there was an area of my life that was lacking; so I got opened, but my life carried on pretty much as normal. I didn't attend that regularly - mainly because of work commitments (or so I told myself at the time) and the rest of my life really wasn't that affected, regardless of some amazing experiences. It was as if the latihan was at the edges of my life.

A few months ago, though, I went through some fairly major life changes and completely reassessed what was important to me. I had some latihans during that period that completely humbled me and made me realise what was truly important - it was as if the latihan had slowly crept up on me to a point where I had to come to terms with the fact that the life I'd lived up until that point really wasn't in tune with who I was or what I needed. As a result, I've not only become much more regular in getting to latihan but also in terms of trying to live it in my everyday life... a much harder prospect than relegating it to a saturday night activity! It has really led me to question the fundamental aspects of who I am, who I was and who I am trying to be. Damn hard work too.

Going to Subud gatherings has always been a lovely social thing, but within my group less so, although the members have all been so welcoming... my social and spiritual lives have always been pretty separate - but knowing I can share experiences with other people is very reassuring.

For me, it's a way of centering myself in who I truly am rather than what other people want me/expect me to be; and a way of finding out how I should be in my life. Trying to live the latihan rather than just doing it though sometimes feels like a really uphill struggle; the light it brings makes it worthwhile. It's not always easy - sometimes it's so joyful it's hard to contain all the happiness I feel and sometimes so hard when you're brought up in front of your shortcomings - but it's the pillar of my life.

Valencia - Nov 12, 2003 - 09:35 PM
Post subject:

Hello all, hope you are all having a good Ramadan, for those fasting and not fasting.

Why do I do Latihan?

I don't know what I would do without it, honestly. Luckily, when I got opened 9 years ago I had lived in a Subud community (Amanecer) where there was a lot of discussion and openess about the Latihan, and I was able to listen to many Bapak talks before, so I was well aware of what I was getting into.

Throughout the hards times I've passed through, the Latihan has been the only thing that has truly gotten me through it all, although it is only until now that I am really giving credit to it.

I must say, that I refused to go to Latihan regularly over a period of more than a year because I didn't agree with certain attitudes and actions of certain Subud members, and I didn't want to be associated with them. In the end, I was only doing harm to myself, by not going enough.

It has only been recently that I really see the great importance of Latihan, of its guidance and of its benefit. A week without Latihan for me, is a week lost, a week without guidance. My life also seems to take on its own life when I feel connected; things just seem to work, to click, to flow and to work out in the most bizarre ways. God, through the Latihan, can truly work wonders.

stuartnauen - Jan 20, 2004 - 11:34 PM
Post subject:

I just wrote a huge post, and then the connection broke and I lost it! However, I realised that I have a lot to say on the matter, maybe u should look out for an article in the journal! I know that my life would lack the purpose, the sense of wonder and the feeling of amazement if I were to stop the latihan, and disassociate myself from Subud. I see it as a true blessing in my life, and a chance to really grow throughout my earthly existance, so I trust in it Smile

. Stu x.

VitorMartins - Apr 23, 2004 - 01:00 AM
Post subject:

How do I not do the Latihan!!
How do I not believe in God!!

These are impossibilities to me!!

Latihan, God... Words right? Nothing but words. Words with meanings. The meanings is what matters here, just the word. Coming to this simple conclusion:

The Universe. All that there is and that there is not is Latihan, is God, is Love, is Pure Energy, is Flower Power, is whatever word with the right meaning is.

So everybody, everything does Latihan all the time.

I found clearness and freedom in braking all these words. Cause we're giving to much meaning to words and it should be the opposite.

But now talking about that Latihan that you do in the middle of four walls a ceilling and a floor(a door would be nice)... To me it's like Life unworried. It's purity. It's an art gallery!! Where you see the big picture!! Smile

I find the expression "bringing the Latihan to the outer Life" a bit... Wrong? Cause Latihan is everything, and when I say Latihan I mean the meaning of it. Latihan is just a word. So we don't bring it out, cause it's everywhere, we just keep in tune.

We have a brain that tells us that we should go to Latihan to feel better, to connect with God. I'm connected to God 24/7, how can I not be connected to God? I am God.

It sounds as if I'm preaching cause the way I'm writing things. I write like I speak. This is my way of seeing, believing and feeling!! These are my ings.

michaelf - Jun 05, 2004 - 07:55 AM
Post subject:

Latihan is so much in my life that I haven't questioned 'Why I do it". Someone returning to UK last year asked me but, partly because we were in the HK Philosophy Cafe, I simply said "For 200 reasons." As we had previously talked about Subud and I had referred him to Subud sites, he did say later that he would make enquiries from the Oxford group.
Synchronicity is near the top of the list. If things don't fit or activities don't connect I move on. My wife tells me that I am so detached that she thinks I am not part of this world.
Another is the wonderful state of Being - similar to water, metaphorically. I cannot frankly recall when someone "got my goat". It must have been about 20 years ago.
The impression when waking each morning that I am born to a new day. There is harldy any baggage from yesterday - I genuinely live NOW as if there will be no tomorrow.
Anyone who gets the impression that I am here and others are elsewhere can be relieved to know that I was opened in HK in 1964 under direction from only God knows because no one had told me anything about Subud. I attended latihan bi-weekly to the extent that my wife told me it was the only thing that I did consistently. I attended faithfully for decades before a glimmer of Self-realizatiion came to my consciousness with heightened senses in 1986. I mean dozens of senses which we all know but rarely are more than slightly aware.
So if it is of any meaning to rank the benefits, the most important would be Guidance. It is sometimes referred to as the Conscience but there is more to it than the "wee voice inside".
Like the evening I rushed to leave our apartment to join my wife with guests at the restaurant. As the lift door closed, I suddenly remembered I forgot to bring something. Mechanically I plugged my right thumb in the square edged door, stopping it but not touching the center which would have reversed it. Clamped as I was, it was not possible to reach the control panel at the right side of the lift with my left hand. At that moment, with the throbbing pain of my thumb, I realized I would be trapped, it occurred to me to kick with my right foot which hit the Door Open button on about the third try.
Sucking my thumb, I retrieved whatever I had thought was important and joined the dinner. The only time I related this was with Varindra a short time later during his visit to HK. My recollection of his comment is suitable to post in this thread.
"Michael, in your state of distracted mind, if the lift door had not trapped your thumb you might have very possibly walked out into the street to be struck by a taxi." I had been given a lesson.
There have been other times less dramatic when I believe I have received Guidance. Rather than taking it for granted, I struggle to follow it as best I can. After 40 years together, this last February my wife gripped my hand telling me: "You and I are all we've got." Serendipity!

Kind regards,
Michael

RosalindC - Jul 04, 2004 - 08:02 AM
Post subject:

You know, that’s a surprisingly provocative question. Off the top of my head I have no idea. I know of many people my age (far too many in this area) who have a laundry list of reasons why they don’t go to latihan, but I can’t come up with a ready set of reasons that I still go. Except perhaps that I couldn’t possibly not go. That is not to say that I go because I am expected to or for any external reason that is just to say that I cannot put into words exactly what I get out of going.

It’s not that I haven’t had some really big experiences in Latihan. And it’s not that I haven’t done really great things and met wonderful people that I otherwise wouldn’t have because of it. But I can’t know what my life would have been without it so I can’t claim that my life is any better that it otherwise would have been. In some ways I imagine that it’s harder. I think that a certain level of unconsciousness might be really quite nice occasionally. I guess the best way to begin to explain it is that before I was opened when I would pray it felt like there was a barrier that my prayer couldn’t go past and after I was opened that barrier was gone. When I am doing my Latihan it is not about the people who I am with (or not with) or how much frustration I might or might not have at various things within the group (my peers who left did not leave without reason) or about any tangible or at least definable benefit it might bring into my life. It’s about that barrier not being there, and it’s not just about the feeling that my prayers go up, but the feeling of what comes back down in return. Even if I knew for a fact that my path in life had been made more difficult, that I had been given more challenges in life, that there were absolutely no quantifiable external benefits in my life because of the latihan; I would still do it. Because what comes back down? is worth everything.

HarunKennedy - Dec 02, 2005 - 09:22 AM
Post subject: Calling all people opened within the last five years

Calling all Youth, all recently opened members - so anyone who has been doing the latihan for less than five years. Tell us why you do the latihan?

Perhaps you can share your ideas and expectations. If you manage to come without expectations, what motivates you to do your latihan?

How do you feel there is logic within your life for doing the latihan?

Do you wonder how likely you think you’ll be doing the latihan in 20 or 40 years?

Is your latihan effortless?

You could even share how you were opened.

Anyway lots of ideas aside what brings you to do your latihan?

This thread is just to share perspectives and experiences with Youth and new members doing the latihan.

MahmudHenry - Dec 02, 2005 - 07:32 PM
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Surely it's not right that an oldie such as yourself should put the younglings on the spot like this Harun!

Who am I kidding. I'm peeved that your definition has made me too old by a year to be youth. Evil or Very Mad

HarunKennedy - Dec 02, 2005 - 11:06 PM
Post subject:

I feel younger than everybody. Laughing

Young, young at heart, young in nature, is no issue.

Five years is a rough number, that will include as many recently opened people as possible. The idea of this forum thread is to get people talking about the latihan in a nice way.

There's already been lots of sometime opened people previously here, it might be nice for new members to share their thoughts with other people in a similar situation.

Idea

himanfam - Dec 08, 2005 - 02:13 AM
Post subject:

Certainly, I was opened more than five years ago, however the latihan itself, at least for me, has never had an age attached. That is one reason I love it so much. :>) Hamilton

Rachel - Dec 10, 2005 - 09:23 PM
Post subject:

Hmm...I thought that i might just kick my side of the ball around the room for a bit. New user here on Subud Life, though not to Subud...
So, the big question, why I do Latihan:

Growning up in a Jewish household, I have believed in God (or whatever you might happen to call it) since about forever. Perhaps thats why I am saved from the life I see so many lead these days, and are ruled by it. I speak none other than of drugs. Not that any hard drugs have ever past my way.
But lets go back a bit.
When I was 15 I began to smoke weed quite often (progressing with the years into a very heavy smoker), and dug myself a hole of depression, self loathing and laziness around me. And it took hold me. It was so easy to take something to help me forget. When I was 18 I was opened into Subud and began praticing the Latihan. I had stopped smoking everyday like I had been about a month prior to my opening, now it was more of 'whenever it came' thing. Which became quite often.
I stopped doing Latihan, for even then I could feel that I was not to mix the two. That it would be a breech in something I did hold very sacred since my childhood.
I wandered then with many questions and no way to recieve any answers.
Then before my 20th birthday I planned to go live in Switzerland for half a year. I had begun smoke regularly about a month and a half prior to my flight, and about a week before I left, something incredible happened to me. I don't know if to imagine that it was possible that I recieved something while being stoned, or if something from deep down finally clicked on, but as I sat there smoking and feeling so bad about smoking, but not really knowing what to do, telling myself I should stop but never really completely doing so (for I had been smoking on and off for about a year then). It was as if I was being shown what the difference was between being high on weed and being high on life, purely and emphatically in the joy that only God may bring us. I was shown myself, pure.
So as any human of some normality would do; I cried. Oh, did I cry, and it was good.
So why do I do Latihan? It helps me to keep myself. Because it good to have one more thing in this life that is good. Its an extension of everything I find good in this life.
Plus its great to have an excuse and say, 'but I can't possibly work this summer, I have a World Congress to go to. It only happens once every four years you know.' Cool

Cheers my brothers and sister....
This is long enough for my first post
Peace out

Ismail - Dec 10, 2005 - 11:42 PM
Post subject: Why do "I" do the latihan

The simple answer is that I no longer do.

I came to Subud because I felt - on what I had heard and read - that Subud could really change my life and renew me.

Raymond van Sommers - someone I know, like and respect - has recently said more or less the same thing on Australian ABC National Radio.

When I came to Subud in Melbourne 35+ years ago I was a rather sweet, innocent, unworldly university dropout. If I "suffered" from anything it was a sensitive and somewhat mildly anxious temperament. I had not "done drugs" or had sex.

In retrospect, I am absolutely sure that proper treatment by a skilled health professional - psychologist or psychiatrist - which translates into learning simple relaxation techniques and applying them to life would have dramatically changed my situation.

Ibu Rahayu - one of the sanest of Subud members - is reliably reported as saying that most Subud members' problems are either psychological or financial. How true! I think many would relate to that.

The latihan gave me the experience that "it": "God", "reality" whatever was within me rather than outside me.

I certainly had some, to me, quite remarkable experiences in the latihan, doing testing with Bapak and in life.

Doing the latihan for 35 years more or less also gave me a realization that "religion" or "spirituality" is not strictly hierarchical. When I lived in Perth, Western Australia for 13 years the Group was definitely dominated by some very strong willed ex-Gurdjieff/Bennetite old lags who really ran things with an iron fist. Not disimilar to the way Irish/Irish-Australian Catholic priests ran their parishes. Terribly sad and destructive. Because of geographic isolation, the problem was worse. When I got back home to Eastern Australia and the Sydney Group I realized that this dead, controlled, bitter, hierarchical Subud was crap.

Subud, Islam, Buddhism are all dependent on whether their practitioners can really "see" and "transform" their lives.

Most ordinary people can see a fake - in Subud or out - quite easily.

I effectively left because I found that the Brisbane Group was recreating the situation in Perth of old. I did try to change things but realized people were happy with what was and I wasn't. So I cut my losses and left.

I don't feel "lost", "sad" or that I have done something awful and that God will punish me.

There is a marvelous Buddhist phrase: "Walk On!"

I know there are many decent wonderful people in Subud. I find a lot of the younger ones pleasantly unconstipated spiritually. I wish everyone the best. It's just that I felt the need to walk on.

There is life after Subud!

I hope my piece does not enrage anyone.

Best wishes,

Ismail

rena - Apr 28, 2006 - 06:38 AM
Post subject: Why I do the latihan

Apparently I was asleep when this forum took place, so without further adieu, let me revive the topic, for I fall within the "relatively new to latihan" criteria.

About 9 years ago, a friend of mine had travelled to Indonesia and was opened. When he returned, I could not be in the same room with him without trembling. Upon departing from the Vancouver Folk Festival, he asked to be dropped off at the "Subud" hall. The name rung like a bell in my ears, and I had never heard it before and needed to know more.

You see, I had been searching for some time to resolve an experience that I had in the early hours of March 23, 1993. I had been wound up about exams and was having trouble sleeping, so I tried some breathing exercises to help me relax. Next thing I knew, my head was filled with a white-blue light and a deafening high-frequency vibration. In fact, my entire body felt electric, as I began to transcend my skin, coming out of my chest, mouth open ready to sing, or cry out. It was the single most ecstatic experience of my life, like being born, utterly undescribable. For a brief moment, I realized what was happening to me, and with a miniscule moment of fear and electric shock, I was snapped back into my body, a force that practically lifted me from my bed. From this moment on, nothing was the same. I never returned to that experience, dispite many attempts.

I never stopped thinking about Subud, or Djubaidah, or my friend who had travelled to Indonesia. I was reluctant however to make the commitment until a low point in my life, where I behaved so badly, that I realized that I no longer loved myself. Coupled by a dream of Magnolias that took flight in the form of birds..........I recieved the message........

That it was time to visit Djubaidah and be opened.....

that was 4 years ago

the rest is an adventure.....

to be continued.....

EsaiasHobbs - Apr 28, 2006 - 07:14 AM
Post subject: Esaias is agahst!

Harun - you're 26?!!

Now that's something I did not know.

G.B

E.x

HarunKennedy - Apr 28, 2006 - 08:48 AM
Post subject:

G.B

E.x

Esaias O Divine Qi Magnet

On May 03, 2003 - 10:12 PM I was 26 years and 10 months.

Esaias will shortly be telling us about Why he does the latihan

Watch this space with suspense and awe at its prospect....

Anyone else. Idea

ClaireW - Apr 28, 2006 - 11:24 AM
Post subject: Why do "I" do the Latihan?

Hello everyone

I might be too old to be on this site (35) but anyway, the answer to this question, for me, is simple...I thought the purpose of doing the latihan regularly was so that your actions/feelings in life will be influenced by God rather than the lower forces. Isn't this why we are in Subud?

And also it makes me feel alive/happy which keeps me going back for more.

Love Claire

greenlore - Apr 29, 2006 - 05:49 AM
Post subject: RE: Why do "I" do the Latihan?

Well, I was opened about 1980 when I was 20 something y/o but only stayed in Subud a year or so before I dropped out and stopped attending group latihan. I came back into Subud in January of this year, and have been attending group latihan fairly regularly since then. The only "problem", for lack of a better word, that I have with group latihan is that it seems to be unnecessary for me. That is, I can stay home and practice latihan and reach the same state of consciousness I do in the group latihan. In fact, I suspect that I never stopped doing the latihan, I have been doing it all along - for 20+ years now - and calling it "meditation" or something.

What's more - and some will consider this heresy - I'm not sure the movements, etc., that spontaneously occur in latihan are all that important. I think the state of consciousness one attains is what's really important and I don't need to formally practice the latihan to tune into it. It is a natural state of consciousness that one can access at any time. Now, I'm not saying that I can access it at any time, just that it is possible to do so, which gives me hope that progress is possible for the human race. I'm not sure how the human will fits into this picture though... but I'm starting to ramble. Embarassed

Samuel - Apr 29, 2006 - 08:51 PM
Post subject: RE: Why do "I" do the Latihan?

The reason why I do the latihan is out of necessity. I feel it is my obligation to worship God, to improve my own situation and to allow the faults within me to be put right. The only way for this to occur is through the movements I recieve in the latihan, either inwardly or outwardly. The movements that I feel while I practice the latihan allow me to realise that God is working on me, and in me. That God is showing me that parts of my own self are now alive, are being moved by the power of God, and not by the power of my desires or passions. The vibrations that I feel due to this movement also show me the proof of my situation, that I am a creature created by God and humbly powerless before Him.

I am not trying to become special or aquire extra knowledge or enlightenment, I just want to know how to live life in the correct way, according to Gods Will.

With Love

Samuel

greenlore - May 01, 2006 - 04:33 AM
Post subject: Doing your latihan with a group and doing your latihan alone

To clarify the question - or actually the answers to it that people have posted - are you (i.e., anyone who replied) making a distinction between the group latihan and latihan done by yourself? That is, do you only practice the group latihan? Or do you practice the latihan both with a group and by yourself? Which do you do more: do you mostly practice latihan by yourself or mostly with the group? Do you find it difficult to do it alone?

The point I was trying to make in my previous reply - which I did a poor job of - was that I don't feel the NEED to regularly attend the group latihan. Yes, I attend it as regularly as I can because it is worthwhile to do so, but to be honest, it's an hour's drive round trip for me, and I can practice it at home just as well (though it's a bit harder to initiate it), so it doesn't make much sense for me to attend it more than once a week.

whirleydervish - May 07, 2006 - 08:22 PM
Post subject:

Wow... this chain was started over two years ago... but the conversation goes on! Hello, everyone. (: This is my first time posting, but I have enjoyed the marvelous fruits of the Subud Life worker's efforts for some time now. Thanks, all of you! It seems like so much is happening over there in the UK, with Subud Youth life. Fun, fun.

At any rate... writing here from Virginia in the US... in hopes to answer the question... why do I do the latihan? The reason has evolved over time. Initially, growing up in Subud I always knew that at one point I would join. I saw my parents change over time, shedding bad habits, growing more peaceful, our family life that had gone through a few rough patches becoming better and better... and then I watched my mother find the work that was meant for her, and saw what a small miracle it produced in her life and the lives around her (she is a nutritionist and health practitioner.) And because they attributed all of this to the latihan and I felt it also, I knew it was a gift and something special... and it was never a question for me as to whether or not I would join... though being distracted by a relationship in college made me put it off for a little while. (:

And even then, after I joined, it took several years and becoming a helper for me to become regular with it. And it hasn't always been an easy process, to say the least. I think sometimes, when we are deeply involved in something that we have an inkling is probably not the right way for us to go... it can be hard to be "diligent" in coming to latihan. Because we recognize that by surrendering to God in the latihan, we will be faced with the reality of our life, and then the wiser part of us will grow stronger, and eventually ask us to let the old habit go. And for me, this is what happened with my first relationship, that had more or less become the center of my life, where it didn't belong.

I remember my mom telling me that when she was pregnant with me, Tuti (I believe... ) told her she was going to have a girl, and she was very grateful to be born into Subud. I'm not sure where that came from, but I think she was onto something... because over time the latihan has grown to be something truly valuable to me... the vehicle through which so many gifts and blessings have come into life as I know it.

It changes over time... though sometimes the change is so slow and gradual that I don't notice it until long after it comes... but I continue to be surprised by what crops up. There was a time initially when I had some experiences that i felt were quite shaking, small though they were, and proof that latihan isn't something we direct ourselves, but something we experience, that teaches us from the inside out. I was amazed that sometimes others who do the latihan, would have similar experiences in different places and times, so we could corroborate with one another.

I go through periods of the latihan moving through different parts of my body that allow me to experience them in different ways... experiencing my organs in different ways... a feeling in my head opening up, where it used to feel more like rocks. (: All of this is interesting and has been an inner education that I've been able to use in learning new physical exercises like dance, and so on.

I have learned about religion through Subud... from Subud friends in other religions, and from my own experience in the latihan, which drew me to Islam. And that is something I am really grateful for.

Now I notice a change in my attitude towards the latihan... that it is becoming more and more normal to me. I may go through long stretches of time where nothing particularly interesting happens. (: Maybe I'm being asked to change that which I already know needs correcting. (: But also as a result I'm beginning to feel the sense of separation I had between Subud and non-Subud members dissolving... and that is a good thing for me. I'm beginning to see Subud as just life... it's just normal. It connects us to one another in Subud and also to those not in Subud. It keeps me aware of that within myself which needs to grow... new levels of ingrained habits to be let go of.

Maybe I haven't experienced this long enough to put it into words. (:

Anyway... thanks for the opportunity to try... much love to all of you out there and I look forward to reading more of your experiences... it's great to share.

Keep the entertainment going...!! (;

affectionately yours,
Laura R. in VA.

greenlore - May 07, 2006 - 10:52 PM
Post subject:

Thank you for your report, Laura.

You said: "It changes over time... though sometimes the change is so slow and gradual that I don't notice it until long after it comes..."

I think this is an important point and one that applies to everyone who does the latihan. The latihan may be producing changes that we're not consciously aware of until much later - until they bear fruit that is visible to us. In fact, I think this is why I dropped out of Subud a while after I first joined it. I wasn't sure if anything was happening and I was too impatient to wait any longer to find out.

MayaReynolds - Aug 15, 2006 - 06:19 AM
Post subject:

Hmm...I notice Esias still hasn't gotten back to us with his answer...the awe and suspense is killing me. Razz

Growing up in Subud I had no idea if I wanted to join, but I always knew that I MUST be part of the Subud Community. I just loved it too much to let it go--the hippies, the family atmosphere, the hippies...

Then one day when I was 18 I said to my mom, "you know, I think I might get opened sometime soon. I don't know when, but it's approaching." Need I say she could scarcely conceal her glee. My sister had been opened when she was 17--I was getting on in years and making people nervous. ;P

A few months after that conversation my mom and I went to Canada to spend a weekend with a Subud sister, and while we were there I suddenly realised that I wanted to be opened immediately! I talked to my mom and she talked to our friend and I was opened the next morning. Since then I've come to recognise many experiences of my childhood as being basically the latihan, only now I can at least sometimes start at 'will.'

To answer the question of why I do latihan now though is a tricky one. I just can't imagine not doing it. I don't think I'd be allowed not to do it. There have been times when I've slacked off for a couple of weeks, and then the latihan just starts spontaneously at the most inopportune times as if to say, "If you don't do it yourself, I'm gonna do it for you!" (Which incidentally is similar to the receiving I got which made me hasten to New Zealand.) The latihan gives me peace and focus and hope, as well as unrest and discomfort from time to time, but those are all part of my growth.

And I love my group! They're my family!

That is all.

Englishman - Oct 07, 2006 - 09:58 PM
Post subject:

Hello all,

I was opened about 8 years ago but it feels a lot shorter as I have not attended regularly at all for various no good reasons so feel a bit behind. However I am trying to mend my ways you will be glad to know. I partly do latihan through fear. yes fear. I fear what will happen if I do not attend as I can see pretty clearly that I can not grow spiritually as I can with the latihan. I would like to see myself grow to be the person I sense i can be and it is scary that I might be left far short. Now the good point here is that I do not live my life in fear but have a deep love and humility for the life around me and I count my blessings every day at what I have and where I am now. i have said in the past that if I died today I would be happy that I have experienced what I have, but the truth is also that I would be sad at not going further and developing as far as I could. There was a point where I hoped to progress very fast in latihan but through reading the talks etc I realise I must simply surrender and accept what comes with gratitude and try to live my life as best I can so that i can try to do my bit while God does His.

I also do the latihan as it not only helps me but my wife and children too and it is a duty that I must do for them. I could not imagine winning the lottery and not using that money for their benefit as well. I would be doing them a disservice if I chose not to go.

I also do the latihan for mankind - that I might be a benefit to it and in some very small way become an asset and not a hinderance.

I also do the latihan for the benefit of the thousands that do attend every week to give my support to them and to thank them for keeping Subud alive and that I might become an active part of the whole that is Subud.

I could expand on a few of these but in summary these are my reasons!

Best wishes,

Oliver.

istafiah1 - Oct 14, 2006 - 08:39 PM
Post subject:

Very interesting to read everyones take on ..there specific understanding of why...we all do the latihan, why we all innately need the latihan.

So I would simply like to add- i do the latiahn bc I can not live without it...To be more clear/concise, how would i find peace? How would I gain clarity to understand the implications of my conduct, the repercussions I mean...I sometimes wonder , in awe and amazement, at some of my non Subud member friendsfriends who make clean/right/good decision in their respective lives, without any understanding( I mean conscious understanding) of what is proclaimed in religion, or seemingly without any tools to reference their conduct by. I sadly, or not sadly, not necessary to judge, I guess, NEED to consciously be aware to try to live within the constraints of acceptable conduct, otherwise i fear where i could tread-
I just need the latihan, and the peace and sometimes clarity(!) it provides to feel alive, to feel truly whole.
This innate desire to worship the one who created me- us...is absolute..
Sometime, it can seem that other aspects of life, comparatively have no pleasure attached to them, at all, without my connection, or at least steadfast desire to worship..
Anyway, i always really thank God that my parents found the latihan, found Subud, bc how can i be sure that I would of?! lol..but then i wouldnt know.
You know sometimes, i perceive some of my friends drive to aquire only material wealth, or fulfill their sometimes strong passions, and i wonder how much simpler life would be...bc sometimes its painful, and uncomfortable to have to be/do/at least endeavor to become/or life the way that you..or 'one' knows is the only correct way for you. Sometimes its so annoying. really lol!

.But really, with sincerity...Thanks be to God......really, Alhumdillah...for us all.

I dont know if im answering the question correctly, I am by nature to serious I guess...what to do...

Yafiah - Oct 24, 2006 - 09:53 AM
Post subject:

Hello all, this is an interesting topic and not something I often sit and think about because latihan feels so natural. Why do I do latihan? Because it's the air I breathe. Without the latihan my heart wouldn't beat, my feet wouldn't walk, my hands wouldn't write. I couldn't not do latihan.

I have to laugh loud and long when I think back to when I was opened at the age of nineteen with puerile ambitions to achieve sainthood! Within a few weeks!!! Wow, what hubris! Of course then the rubbish and rubble started tumbling out, I even add to it at times, and now many years later I know the journey never ends and I'll be very happy just to be truly human.

Love from a humble jiwa walker with hopes of becoming a jiwa dancer,
Yafiah

Mirwin - Nov 02, 2006 - 11:46 PM
Post subject:

I do the latihan because of the condition I find when my thinking and imagination have been put aside and all that is left is awareness. That state may last half a second or several minutes at a time and may repeat during the exercise but it seems to be a glimpse into the world of my spirit. Carrying a remembrance of that world, intuitive knowledge occasionally comes to me in my non-latihan life. In simple terms I go back to my latihan repeatedly becuase it is the only place where I find this knowledge of self. I like the finding it and so want to do it again....and again. Michael Irwin

Neven - Nov 22, 2006 - 11:32 PM
Post subject:

I' m a newly opend member and I'm glad to see people talking about this. I've been doing Latihan 2-3 months now and it has been very rewording. I've been on a kind of search since early adolesence and it has taken me into bioenergy experiments, aura manipulations, been intrested in magic, and even been a born again cristian when I was 17. that after I said good ridance to my chatolic church and religion into wich I was born into. I am no longer practising-for diferent reasons- any of the mentioned. Through all that, somehow, I was slowly destiling a meaning that wuld become aperent to me later on. I'm 28 now and since 15 I was prety much an alcoholic 'till about a year ago. 4 years back I had...an expirience of being fully united with god but still living. kind of awakening into what I am... never mind that... as a resut I changed my direction in life. I knew to where I must go if I ever again want to be satisfyed. After this my understanding of what "real" or "thruth" is, together with "love" have changed, and my standards have risen all together. I am not a person that can easily follow other peoples theachings, not at all if I have not come up with it myself atleast to some extent. I was constantly developing and refining my own way to God (I love in the book by Hermann Hesse "Sidartha" how Sidartha when he meets Buddha, recognize that Buddha has attained what he himself seeks but in the same time he understands that Buddha can not teach him that. Everyone has it's own individual path to there) when I met Bjorn V. who is a Subud member and with whom I talked a lot of these subjects. I was not at all inspired to join Subud inspite of great example set by my friend. But one day it I woke up with complete understanding that I shuld join Subud and do Latihan. All the peaces fell into place. I met some people that were in Subud and they had the qualitys that I was developing within my self as a way to my self, to God.
To finaly say the answer to this threads name: I do Latihan becose it is opening my eyes and ears to the great and only true Teacher (for me) that is within us. Every day I "get" new lesson in living and my days are incrisingly spent in observing the beauty to wich The Teacher drows my attention to.
Latihan shows me and takes me to see and shortly expirience possibilities of higher being, and then it is up to me to walk it through in everyday life.
Latihan is my key to an adventures life. I say where i want to go and It points me into right direction. I just pray for anough curage to start walking that path when i see nothing but dark, but I guess those are the ralms and requests of faith.
...All in all - it's great FUN! Smile

all the best to you
neven

Cary - Dec 02, 2006 - 11:02 PM
Post subject:

I just wanted to add that sometimes I hear people say that the hall is not to their liking or the people around them are to noisy or whatever. I like the saying to " put principles above personalities".
Sometimes right after latihan someone will come up and start talking about whatever and I'm stilled in that zoned out peaceful state and talking just isn't where I'm at and I have had to say can we talk about this later.
Also as far as disturbing surroundings ,from what I've learned, the latihan prepares us( along with everything else) for the moment when we die and ideally it will be in a warm bed with candles lit and soft cellos in the background, but it could also be in horribly disturbing conditions and if I can still hook up with my higher power when the moment comes then I can give thanks to those "bad" situations that I did latihan in and could still surrender and receive in spite of them.
Ever grateful to have the latihan connection in my life.

greenlore - Dec 09, 2006 - 08:28 PM
Post subject:

That's a good point, Cary. My experience is that if I've really let go in latihan, someone could come up and yell in my ear or walk into me (both of which have happened) and it won't bother me. I'll just observe it in a detached manner like it happened to someone else because I'm deep in contemplation. And like you said, the latihan helps you learn to stay centered in even the most disturbing situation. In fact, for me, that was one of the first signs that the latihan was affecting me. I found that I was reacting less and responding more intelligently to negative people and circumstances. Smile

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