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Post subject: sex, promiscuity and more
 Posted: Aug 19, 2003 - 03:09 PM
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 04, 2002
Posts: 1
Location: Exeter, California
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Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I just returned from the Brazil gathering. You all need to check out Ibu Rahayu's talks (2) from this gathering. It is the first time she is very direct about sex and relationships.
By the way, someone mentioned wanting to test about these topics and you can! Please don't be afraid to ask. At this gathering as well as Columbia we had scheduled testing sessions for young people to address such topics = a very open and encouraging atmosphere. Many young people took advantage of this time. If you have more questions or want to know more about types of testing questions they asked, please write to me.
To view Ibu's talks from Brazil go to www.subudworldnews.com and click on SWN special on Brazil. The top of that page are the talks in English ready to download.
Happy reading and enjoy. Harfijah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 11:02 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 16
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Can I just say something about politcal correctness.
In my first week of Subud when I asked about homosexuals in Subud a helper sagely told me that God doesn't recognise political correctness.
Yes I know it's an irritating modern day buzz word and is the cause some ridiculous litigation.
But I thought the move toward political correctness in society was to help make it more egalitarian. And I'm also told that God created everyone as an equal.
So PC may be man-made but surely it's a good intentioned attempt to return to a level playing field where we learn not to judge others. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 01:23 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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I suppose you are right Sheward, but it can also be a useless pain in the real end. What your helper must have been trying to say is politically correct attitudes have no place in Subud when they seek to anaesthetise us against socially painful or uncomfortable realities or to deny their existence.
And be under no pretence that political correctness prevents you judging others. The mere process of changing what you say to be politically correct is an act of judgement - if you think telling another person the truth will offend them, you must think them inferior to you in some way.
Generally, political correctness is a poor substitute for common courtesy.
Love, of a politically incorrect brotherly kind,
Henry  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 03:01 PM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 16
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I suppose I can live with that.
love right back at ya brother ( though not in a gay way )
PS where does your family get its stripey shirts? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 04:03 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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Everywhere my dad can find them  |
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Post subject: Ibus Talk in Brazil
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 07:33 PM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 19
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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HEllo
Well, I said this before in another forum: Ibu Rahayu was very clear whe she said it´s wrong if a Subud member puts on the internet that "subud members practice free sex."
That's a very general statement, it's not true, and it does not include the perspective of most subud members.
I hope we can always understand the importance of respect and that Subud is a serious organization.
Sincerely,
Benjamin G. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 - 10:07 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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Sex 
Isn't that for young people? 
Since posting a question in Father Stephenson's "query box" at my Jesuit Stalag (which I left, thank God!) I have tried to rise above it! 
Seriously, having sired three delightful young people (26, 24 & 19) all in wedlock, even whilst in Subud, I am glad I did not "screw around" when younger. Or older.
Sex is a bit like the song "Lemon Tree". It can be Heaven/Hell.
One can get wound up in knots philosophically discussing relationships.
Ditto discussing Bapak's advice without understanding.
Emanuel Williams was going to write a book on sex
Try nonjudgemental conventional morality.
Take care. Really! Don't burn yourself out with 1,000 affairs.
So many former Jet Setters my age - like Mick Jagger - look so passe now.
Look after yourselves.  Love yourselves. Respect yourselves. Have decent friends. Live life. Sex is just part of life. Don't giganticize or overintellectualize it. See things in proportion. Decent people find decent people. Scrags find scrags.
I have no sympathy for middle aged dickheads who find themselves sad & lonely after a youth of screwing other beautiful people. Drunk or drugged. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2005 - 12:34 AM
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Divinely Inspired
Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 91
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"My understanding is that two human beings are automatically spiritually bonded if not married when they have intercourse"
That little Subud gem comes via Henry, if I read correctly.
This next once comes from the gutter press -just a bit approximately.
"My grandmother was your grandfather's mistress. Lets do it."
And look how spiritually bonded and screwed up those two became - Charles, and Camilla
I do note that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throws stones. I am just passing on a couple of seemingly related pieces of information.
I'm sure Bapak explained things correctly. Its just that none of us can do things perfectly.
O yes-I thought a woman (stranger I met recently) whose husband had played up and then regretted it should still take him back.
Any comments?
Bronte |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 17, 2005 - 09:32 AM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 45
Location: London, England
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| Thank you to the Guest. Good shit. |
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Post subject: Relationships outside marriage
Posted: Apr 17, 2005 - 10:32 AM
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Newbie
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Oregon - USA
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Bapak's advice and guidance is that when one has sex outside of marriage that breaks up the marriage. It breaks up the spiritual oneness of the marriage.
So it is a great way to go to hell after this life.
So if you have the ability to test you can test:
"May I receive from Almighty God how it will be for my soul to be in hell after this life"
I hope that you will be able to receive how it will be for you because if you don't want to go to hell then you have to purify yourself completely when you are in this world.
If you don't purify yourself completely you will become trapped in the material heaven after this life and that is what is called "To be in hell"
If you are trapped in the material world after this life there is no way out.
You will be in hell FOREVER. Forever is forever it is millions of years in hell.
Simon |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 18, 2005 - 11:37 PM
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Divinely Inspired
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Posts: 93
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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<... if you don't want to go to hell then you have to purify yourself completely when you are in this world. If you don't purify yourself completely you will become trapped in the material heaven after this life and that is what is called "To be in hell"
If you are trapped in the material world after this life there is no way out. You will be in hell FOREVER. Forever is forever it is millions of years in hell.>
I'm not commenting on relationships outside of marriage, but I believe this part of Simon's message is nonsense.
Merin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 19, 2005 - 12:47 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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| well, from a mathmatical point of view, yes, I suppose forever and millions of years are two very different things. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 21, 2005 - 03:47 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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I guess "sex outside marriage" can mean both pre-marital and extra-marital sex.
There is obviously a difference. 
Bapak's life and advice were pretty conservative about both.
Obviously his moral universe - that of a Muslim Javanese who grew up in the early 20th Century - was very different to what exists in the 21st Century West.
In my experience sex can be a sort of weather vane showing where one is.
My generation - that of young adulthood in the 60s - was a somewhat alenated one.
Love & sex - like drugs - were held up as being the answer to "finding yourself".
As a shy, morally conservative, religious young man, I did not "find" myself through these means.
Having joined Subud at 21 I found that I was "protected" the one time I "tried to have a naughty".
Sex had to wait til after marriage in my late 20s.
Very rarely have I experienced "magic sex" a la Mantak Chia, Tantric Yoga or the latest American "Have a Super Orgasm" way. Never.
But I have had some memorable and mindblowing experiences. For instance, I can remember the night my son was conceived. I had been ill with flu and was quite weak but the experience was light and wonderful. The name given to my son by Bapak actually means "Light". And he is.
I am an extraordinarily average bloke you would not look twice at. Quite boring. Not a party animal. Not a member of the Subud Bright Young Set. And yet I have had this experience.
Harifah is quite right. If you want to you can test it. Whatever it is that bothers you. A light on the way. But you need to follow the answer. Testing is not a joke.
Heaven and Hell are actually within us. We all know when we do the right thing & feel good. Likewise the opposite.
Subud isn't an organisation like the Roman Catholic Church. Masturbation, pre-marital sex or contraception aren't "sins" to be "punished".
We have responsibility for what we do.
I would think cheating on your partner, whether you are legally married or not, is betrayal pure & simple.
Preaching is inappropriate in Subud. Bapak didn't preach. He did give talks which didn't finish there. He actually tested with members. To help bring them alive. To show them they had that "internal compass" which can guide them.
Talking which ends with the mouth is useless.
We need to access our own inner guidance. That is what Subud is about. It does not "abolish" religious morality but shows us what is right for us.
Sex can be Heaven or Hell. Sometimes, like Dante, your journey to Heaven requires that you see, but not necessarily participate in, the living Hell which some people create.
Idries Shah gave the following Sufi quote:
"Learn how to behave from those that cannot".
Life is a journey. A learning experience. We need to learn by our mistakes, right our little boats and sail on. At least there are quite a few other brothers & sisters from Subud on the water. They can help us.
Best wishes,
Ismail |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 21, 2005 - 03:42 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 45
Location: London, England
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Heaven and hell? Well, here we go... I really like the Bapak quote where he says 'the greatest sin is to believe we are always right'. PINCH OF SALT REQUIRED. Bad paraphrase see www.subuh.com
Owch. Don't we all?
There is a way out of hell.
Unless, of course, I'm wrong... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 21, 2005 - 03:43 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 45
Location: London, England
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| The 'bad paraphrase' was meant about me. |
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