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Post subject: New to Subud
 Posted: Feb 28, 2007 - 06:18 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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Hello,
I'm new to Subud, and I feel really out of place. A friend of mine introduced me to it a while back, and I was just opened about 3 weeks ago. So far, I've done two latihans including the opening, and I don't really get it. See... faith is a foreign concept for me. I'm trying to relax and be open minded and just experience what happens in the latihan, but I don't even know how to do that. I can't help but analyze what's happening at every step in the game, and I feel that it's having a negative impact on my ability to receive.
I feel very out of place when doing the latihan because the others are moving around the room and chanting or moaning, and all that I can do, really, is just sit there and try to meditate to clear my head.
What I'd like to know is if there's anybody on this board who's also a very analytical person who has run into this in his / her life. How'd you get through it? What works best for you? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2007 - 06:42 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 295
Location: 世界 Shijie
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Just moan with them.
In time your true feelings will take the helm.
I have similar problems often, thinking about the day and fathoming the answer to this or that, and I have been doing it for going on 14 years.
If it helps move around and stretch a wee bit, at least you are diverting your energy from thinking.
If you are sincere, and you keep coming, you'll start to place the excess mental activity. The most important thing is to go there and treat the latihan and your doing of it, like meeting some dignified nothing out of the ordinary stranger - whom you have a neutral and uninterested involvement with.
Whatever happens, come to each latihan night, and get there early and really work on being quiet and peaceful. If you can manage a good 15+ minutes before latihan, things will look up. 
Don't expect too much, its often very subtle to begin with. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2007 - 06:48 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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HarunKennedy wrote:
The most important thing is to go there and treat the latihan and your doing of it, like meeting some dignified nothing out of the ordinary stranger - whom you have a neutral and uninterested involvement with.
I have absolutely no idea what this means, but it sounds pretty.  I'll try moving around next time (we do it Sunday mornings), but I just feel so awkward and uncomfortable doing it. I think that I'm entirely too self conscious. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2007 - 10:52 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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Welcome to Subud and here Bucho.
You should not feel out of place, but I know what you mean. I have to go 34 years back to remember how it was. I was very shy when I was just opened, thought I was meant to move a lot straight away. Since I didn't move or made sounds I thought it was something wrong with me and I felt awkward about it. It took awhile before I move first time and I think it was some testing that got it going. Faith has nothing to do with it, other than the faith you have in yourself. Just relax but don't try too hard, don't think about it too much, you have just started so don't worry, things are working for you somewhere. You will see you get there.
Where are you from?
Hope we see you here a lot.  |
_________________
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2007 - 11:59 PM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Langley, British Columbia, canada
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thanks for posting this.
Here is my little take.
(I have been doing the latihan for 40 years)
sometimes maybe in the beginning there is a tendency to be too serious.
try this. Stand. close your eyes. And just be aware of the movement in your feet. You will notice that standing is never rigid. Your balance and the weight of your body is always shifting slightly from the heel to the front of the foot. From one foot to the other. Noone watching you can really see, but you can feel all this. Then you feel the movement in your knees too and also in the hips.
This is awareness of being in your body. Anyone can do this while they are standing. it is just a matter of being aware of it.
This is not the latihan as such, but it is the first step in the latihan. the only difference between this and the latihan, is that in the latihan you gradually start to be moved in all kinds of other ways as well. This grows and develops over the years to involve the feeling and thinking and heart things and many other things.
But just start with the awareness in your body when you are standing. After awhile the weight will shift so that you are walking. And then you become aware of other things, like your breathing. And the latihan is inside that too. And then the breath moves into voice. and it all starts to happen.
Because you have been opened. Thats why. And that is my little bit.
S. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2007 - 05:08 AM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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Thank you everybody. I really appreciate your words. I'm also doing kundalini yoga at the moment, and I think it's starting to help me come out of my shell a little bit. I'll try the standing and rocking thing on Sunday when I do my next latihan, and see how it goes.
Also... it's kind of a relief that I'm not the only one who felt out of place when first being opened. As you might have guessed, I have a tendency to overanalyze things, and this can sometimes lead to comparing myself to others. It's silly - I know... but sometimes I just can't help it. If I get nothing else out of the latihan, I'm hoping that I at least learn patience. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2007 - 05:15 AM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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helenh wrote:
Where are you from?
Originally Sacramento, CA. However, I've since moved to Atlanta, GA. I've been here for about a year and a half now.
helenh wrote:
Hope we see you here a lot.
Thanks! I've actually been lurking for the past couple of months, but as I hadn't been opened yet, I didn't feel particularly compelled to post. Now that I have been opened, I plan on bugging you guys for most of my concerns so that I don't completely exasperate my helpers.
Actually... I find that I have a much easier time of expressing my thoughts and concerns in writing than verbally. I often times can't find the right words to say when speaking, and it's only later when I get home and am able to write that I can describe what I'm feeling.
Anyways... thanks once again, everybody. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2007 - 09:53 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 295
Location: 世界 Shijie
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Hi Bucho
I reckon what Sjaharih has added is very positive. We have a problem in Subud of leaving new members to find out for themselves. And often it leads to lots of effort and mental activity. Whilst your latihan is unique to you and no one else can explain it to you, you can be given a helping hand to build up a natural and effortless awareness of your own self and your personal nature and feelings.
Don't be afraid to ask your helpers about the latihan, just try to limit the intellectual construction of why and what its about and more to the activity of feeling and doing. In a few months if you still feel that things are not happening, then perhaps you haven't managed to relax. So its all your fault  - but seriously, then is a good time to ask the helpers to do a special latihan with just you and them, and get them to simply ask for a latihan to help you feel the latihan. Simply. However, its important not to try and quantify or analyse what you may feel, or not feel. New members are a really positive thing for helpers, they keep them on their toes, and help them to nurture their availibility and ability to do their jobs in a better way.
Its also no bad thing to travel and visit other groups and do latihan with them, go to regional or national gatherings when you get the chance.
What ever you feel moved to do, it doesn't have to be so serious, just let it happen. The latihan is with you all the time. If you work on being more peaceful (not meditative) on a more regular basis all the things you have read in this thread are no longer something that require thought and effort.
Cheers
Harun. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 06:42 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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| Relaxed attention is the key to success in meditation and the latihan. Just relax and pay attention to whatever you're sensing and feeling in your body/mind without judging or analysing it. If I feel like moving, I move. If I feel like speaking, I speak (but this has not happened yet.) If thoughts arise, I observe them and let them go. Judging and analysing the process will block it, because then you end up thinking about doing the latihan rather than doing it. This includes thinking about what other people in the room are doing. Do not be concerned with them, that is just a distraction. The latihan is as natural a process as watching your breath but it does require attention. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 04, 2007 - 11:56 PM
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Newbie
Joined: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 3
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| As you may well have noticed, you'll find you get a whole load of different and often conflicting advice whenever you ask a question about subud. My advice is that while listening to others' advice can help if you happen to take it the right way (which is hard!), so above all else go straight to the source and read / listen to Bapak's talks. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2007 - 02:44 AM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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Hey everybody - thanks once again for your words and for sharing your own experiences with me. I had my latihan today, and instead of sitting as I have been, I tried standing. I was about 5 or 10 minutes in when I started letting go completely, and moving about the room. The problem is that I immediately became aware that I was moving and then as soon as I took notice of it, I stopped.
So yeah - I didn't feel the same things that I felt last time... in fact, I really didn't feel much at all this time, but the movement is a new thing for me. I just need to learn to not pay any attention to the part of myself that's taking notice of what's happening during the Latihan. I think that once I can do that, I'll be able to get into it a lot easier.
I think that the two main problems that I had were that I would take notice of the movement whenever it would happen, and as soon as I started meddling in the affairs of my body, things would stop working. Also... moving around a room with obstacles in it with my eyes closed is kind of a scary proposition for me, so there was always that thought in the back of my mind that I was going to bump into shit. Oddly enough, though... the only time that I actually bumped into something was when I was warning myself that I could bump into things.
I'll see how it feels next weekend, but I think that I'm starting to get the hang of it. *Starting*. 'Course... one of my helpers says that he's been doing the latihan for 42 years now, and he still doesn't have the hang of it. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2007 - 05:20 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 12
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hahahaha. Bucho, what have I gotten you into???? :p
I'm really happy you're asking questions about it all. I'm pretty bad at expressing myself when it comes to latihan, but you've found a good place to ask questions. You are the first non-subud friend of mine who has joined Subud.. this is really weird for me! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2007 - 06:46 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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"I had my latihan today, and instead of sitting as I have been, I tried standing."
You haven't been starting the latihan in a relaxed standing position, as Bapak recommended? In the groups I've been in, the helpers have always suggested that we do this.
"The problem is that I immediately became aware that I was moving and then as soon as I took notice of it, I stopped."
Yes, that's normal. The trick is to observe it dispassionately and not try to figure it out - what am I doing, what does it mean, etc. - because doing that blocks the flow, as you've discovered. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2007 - 10:08 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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greenlore wrote:
You haven't been starting the latihan in a relaxed standing position, as Bapak recommended? In the groups I've been in, the helpers have always suggested that we do this.
Well... I have been, but I would get tired of standing there doing nothing after about 5 minutes or so, and then just sit down. It was only this last time when I decided to stand for the duration of it that I was able to move about.
greenlore wrote:
Yes, that's normal. The trick is to observe it dispassionately and not try to figure it out - what am I doing, what does it mean, etc. - because doing that blocks the flow, as you've discovered.
Yes - I'm hoping that with time and practice, I'll get a lot better at this. I think it might also aid me in many other aspects of my life as well. Having never done anything like it before, though, I'm a little green. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2007 - 10:10 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 8
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Valencia wrote:
You are the first non-subud friend of mine who has joined Subud.. this is really weird for me!
Almost as weird as it is for me joining Subud, I'd wager. We can be weird together. |
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