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Post subject: Forlorn Hope or A New Sunrise? Fact or Fiction?
 Posted: Feb 18, 2006 - 04:02 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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Growing Up.
In traditional Indian society there is the thread ceremony where, around puberty, boys receive the sacred thread that denotes their acceptance into manhood in society.
A sacred ceremony.
What, I wonder, are we giving our young men as they enter into Subud?
Traditional India, despite its admitted faults, was a society where the sacred was acknowledged. The great epics – the Ramayana for one – told stories as much of spiritual and moral, as of sheer physical, courage.
What “courage” have we demonstrated after almost fifty years in the West?
What “spiritual change” have we wrought in ourselves and our collective life?
What “dazzling light” shines for the world?
Old men and women die. Some wonderful. Some hypocrites and charlatans. The middle aged and aging muddle on, repeating mantras learnt in Cilandak, London, Sydney, Wolfsburg : misquoted wisdom applied to inappropriate circumstances.
So much dung cast before the shrine.
They tell me dung is a good fertiliser.
Is so much I have seen and learnt just that?
Somehow I have been initiated as a Brahmin. I have the look and colouring of one. What do they look like? It varies as humanity does.
This initiation was at my opening. I did not know and could not feel it. It took an age to realise this!
Should I have asked for even more dung? No! Just purification so I was cleansed and could become truly human.
“Surrender” is not an empty mantra but a gift from Almighty God to whose power alone we surrender.
We still have to try and live morally and survive in a world in thrall to materialism and dominated by material forces.
May our minds be cleansed, may our hearts be cleansed, may our bodies be cleansed so we can follow our true dharma which is submission to Almighty God through His Power working from that secret place deep within ourselves.
Only by His Gift – in whatever seemingly strange way given – incomprehensible to us can we achieve it.
Let us not laugh at the good traditional Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus or Sikhs. They sometimes give us a far better example of what we should be like. Without the moral value flowing from religion society becomes anarchic, soft and ripe for destruction. The Mongols like Genghis Khan, the Nazis under Hitler, Communism under Stalin and Mao rampage over it. Are New York and Abu Ghraib so far apart?
We forget the appalling images of the Twin Towers and of the Iraqi prison. Perhaps both Modern Western and Modern Muslim society are both corrupted? And elsewhere? Africa, India, Indonesia, China etc.? What is left? What “tools” have we got to rebuild with?
In a quiet home in suburban Brisbane, my own, with loving wife and demanding cat, I feel happy.
Happy? How dare I? Backslider from the empty fantasy of Morningside, the hollow interment of everything I ever experienced as true about the latihan and Subud, God, life, morality and community. I, who do not bow to any sawdust Caesar or consort. I have not attended latihan for ages.
Empty, inappropriate, misquoted or imagined “Bapaksay”, “Sudartosay”, “The National Helpers tested”, “I received”, “We did it in …” fall like dead birds from the sky. Shot down by obvious truth. The test of reality.
There is a great cleansing afoot. Like “The Scouring of the Shire” in “Lord of the Rings”. An inner, hopefully less violent, cleansing. Metaphorical.
“Purification” in traditional Sufism means the cup needs to be emptied, cleansed and refilled by Almighty God.
We need to be “purified” like that! Not to go round and round in circles achieving little or nothing. Help comes from above.
Dare we raise our arms upward in silent surrender? To Almighty God alone? Or will the endless round of wishful thinking, projection and desire which cannot be sated drag us down again?
When a cancer is removed and the body healed does the patient inquire what was done with the diseased tissue?
Do we have “mental problems” about being healed in body and mind?
Did Lazarus abuse Jesus for restoring him to life? That would be to blaspheme against Almighty God’s power by which the healing worked.
Are our own individual and collective dunghills so precious we don’t want them removed? Do we enjoy the horrid stench?
The mess we have made of Subud has to go. The Gurdjieff/Bennettite hubris and false hierarchy. Out! Self-seeking and the endless recycling of the “elite”. The local, national and international Mad Hatter’s tea parties. Out!
Our frame and roof beams are white anted out. We are in need of structural, as against cosmetic, change. No rearranging deck chairs on the “Titanic”. The iceberg is near!
I feel the younger people – like my daughter – know what to do. We need to nurture them. All of them. Not just the well known, networked families. Everyone.
Already the young, or some, at least, are different. Some families seem to have a hereditary hubris. They may find themselves bypassed. Isolated. Alone.
People are going to come from everywhere. The poseurs, the exclusivists, the nutters, the wankers will either change or go to oblivion.
Thank Almighty God we have so little worth preserving in Subud Australia. We might be in the forefront of rebuilding. The demolition needs just a puff of wind. Like a house of cards it goes. There! It’s gone!
Future generations will not remember our individual names or stupidities but will be grateful for the latihan. The flame is passed. The light continues to shine. Individual torches, having fulfilled their purpose, burn out. All eventually return to Almighty God.
“What I shall be I cannot imagine” Maulana Rumi.
That’s it! Exactly! Spot on!
Burn on my little torch. I am grateful to have been a vehicle to pass the light.
Torch after torch. Like the Olympic Torch. But to what a Final Bowl they pass!
Wow! |
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Post subject: RE: Forlorn Hope or A New Sunrise? Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Feb 19, 2006 - 11:58 AM
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Divinely Inspired
Joined: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 90
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In one way, these are good and useful reflections on one's own position, and it's relation to Subud and the wider world. Unfortunately, it really is rather spoiled by all this condemnation of other Subud members, no matter what their failings. If Subud is to be re-energised, it will be by someone who spreads light everywhere, and who gives new energy and purpose to everyone, no matter whether they are old Coombe-ites (not many of them left, surely? I'm 60 now and was just 18 when I visited and saw the very last months of Subud at Coombe) or anything else. That person will not somehow kick out the sort of people you happen not to like.
In any case, Ismail, your posts are just a rehash of the same old thing over and over again, you are doing nothing, just posting on this board, so get real. The only way you or I or anyone could breathe fresh life into Subud is by getting somewhere inwardly, by truly becoming someone with the inner power, inner authority, and inner clarity of vision to help Subud members and indeed humanity at large. Meanwhile, all these posts are just vacuous emanations from the mind, though sometimes somewhat amusing and interesting ones. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 19, 2006 - 11:26 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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Luthfi,
We all need to address our issues. It's the beginning of wisdom. 
As I said, I've been up to my eyeballs in fertiliser. 
I can now differentiate between nightsoil and God's Grace.
I wonder, idly if your reaction is not a case of "Honi soit qui mal y pense".
I've left a lot behind.
Sorry if my humour disturbed.
Best wishes,
Ismail |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2006 - 06:51 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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Friends,
Rather than talking about the personal inadequacies of those Subud members who are treading water, I would like to discuss the reasons why we in Subud fail to make progress. Besides the obvious reason for lack of progress, i.e., not doing the latihan regularly and/or surrendering in latihan, what are the other obstacles to progress?
I had thought of starting a thread entitled: Is it that easy? By "that easy" I mean: does one merely need to do latihan faithfully twice a week and adhere to the basic moral guidelines of the world's major religions? This doesn't seem difficult to me. Am I unusual? Have I overlooked an important issue?
What do you think? What is preventing Subud members from improving and influencing other people to want to do likewise? Is it just too hard to believe in and stick to a path that sounds so simple? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2006 - 09:21 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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Mike,
I had regularly done the latihan for 35+ years and been a thoroughly decent, hard working, moral person all my life.
Despite this, I had avoided facing up to certain problems I needed to face.
Problems germane to me personally. Nothing vile, indecent nor criminal.
I think I pressed someone else's button with my writing.
My writing was an attempt to exorcise my own demons.
There is a time when one needs to get on with one's own life.
God Willing, I shall find my answer.
Best wishes with the forum. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 21, 2006 - 06:38 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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"Despite this, I had avoided facing up to certain problems I needed to face."
Well, I guess this is true of every Subud member whose progress is stymied. Good luck to you, Ismael. 
But what keeps us from facing our problems and changing? Is it just too easy to continue on the same old tracks even when you know that those tracks will eventually lead you into a ditch?
It seems to me that the purpose of the Subud organization is to support each other in making the necessary changes in ourselves and then in the world we live in. Everything that impedes this effort needs to be discarded if we want to reach the promised land. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 21, 2006 - 11:07 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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This may seem a bizarre place to make a "confession" Mike.
My "problem" was/is a hypersensitivity which caused a tendency to withdraw into myself.
Due to certain life events that tendency was made worse.
Apart from a tendency to overintellectualise, my youth was pretty innocent.
When I joined Subud in Melbourne in the late 60s I was looking for a way out of some rather intense personal psychological suffering. Due to my upbringing, I felt this was a "spiritual problem".
In retrospect, I consider that simple relaxation exercises, combined with appropriate professional assistance, would probably, given time, set me right.
It's taken me years to reach the stage where I realise this is what I need to do and to do it. I've had to go against the accepted Subud orthodoxy to do this. Psychology etc = No good. "Stick to the latihan and you will be OK." 
So I guess, given my experience of the Subud setup and Subud people in various places, I think there is a real need for improvement across the board.
My experience of Subud people and Subud groups is that, in the main, most people want to get on with their own thing, whatever that is, with their own friends. There are many who are not like this, thank God! Otherwise Subud would've collapsed long ago.
The group I choose not to attend is possibly atypical because most of them are expats, retired and old. Displaced.
Bapak considered Subud a brotherhood. His family treat everyone like it is. 
Here, I think, we have lost the plot.
At the moment I am grateful that I have a lifebelt in a choppy sea!
My concern for this group, the local representor of Subud, is minimal.
Once I've sorted my own stuff out, maybe I'll care.
On the other hand, I may just not.
Sorry if this offends anyone, but at least it's genuine.
To all the decent people in Subud everywhere, like yourself, Harun, Luthfi, Henry, Oliver etc. my blessings and good wishes for your lives and future.
Without the likes of you, Subud would have none.
It's the decent, ordinary people who always save things.
My apologies for any unintented offence in this one. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 02:23 AM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 35
Location: UK
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Thank you all for your posts, they were worth reading once. Surely its a good sign that nobody puts a post up saying we need to stick together in small groups until we fade away. I think it just needs the right atmosphere or event to bring people out or groups out for that matter.
I have heard a lot said about Australia and it all seems to run along the lines of we are failing or going nowhere - lets hope the kids get it right. Some good talk to. Maybe this is a physical thing that Australia exerts over people - harsh terrain etc, that the modern Western input has not got used to yet, who knows.
All this talk I am sure gets us less further than we think it takes us, but its all purification I guess, so its good we are here to help each other out on that score - encouraging more purification. (Oh no I'm starting to ramble...)
Anyway I just wanted to say that at the end of the day we need to challenge ourselves to get better, to find a cleaner path (don't like the sound of dung) a more rightious path that lets us learn and grow, learn and grow. Lets not be hard on each other for at least taking the path.
I used to think I had to say lots to be interesting but I learnt listening is good too, so I'll let you all have your own bit now.
O. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 07:30 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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Ismail said: "I've had to go against the accepted Subud orthodoxy to do this. Psychology etc = No good"
Really? This is news to me, thanks for bringing it up. I've never heard Bapak imply this in any of his talks. In fact, just the opposite; he suggests that Subud members avail themselves of whatever medical services they may need, and I presume this includes psychological counseling. I have no reason to think it wouldn't because the latihan is not mental therapy and this is sometimes needed.
I mean, the "dysfunctional" families (to use a tame word) that some people have grown up in... it's a wonder they're still relatively sane!  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 10:28 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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My information, which I followed religiously for years, was one of Bapak's letters published both in the Pewarta and in the Helpers Guide advising a member not to see a psychiatrist but to surrender to God. He also advised that changing psychiatrists would further confuse the person.
The reference is checkable. I no longer have the Helpers Guide so am relying on memory.
Whether I was right or wrong I have moved on.
I guess I've taken responsibility on myself.
Our problem in Australia is isolation. In a small, isolated group, you can get very dated, set in your ways and isolated.
Brotherhood is a mutual thing. You can feel it.
Thank you all. I appreciate it. I feel lighter. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 09:04 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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Yes, well, Bapak also said numerous times that he was not our guru and that he was human and therefore fallible. Each of us needs to decide if his statements are true and relevant for us. I have read statements by Bapak that seem to be culturally biased. I don't think he was free of all cultural conditioning.
Related to this subject, Bapak advised helpers not to open people who are mentally ill. Why? Because most helpers do not have the psychological/psychiatric training to deal with the consequences of opening such a person. In other words, they don't know enough about psychological therapy to help a mentally ill person. Helpers are not qualified to help such people or to advise members on whether psychological counseling would benefit them, any more than they would be qualified to advise them about medical treatments for a physical illness (if they are not medical doctors). |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 09:52 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Brisbane
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Bingo, Mike!
Certainly, in this particular instance, if Bapak said/did not say knew/did not know I have had to trust myself. I wish I had earlier!
Re Helpers & medical affairs I could tell a story or two.
Harun, Subud Australia, like Subud everywhere, contains human beings from the wonderful to the pretty deplorable. "And everything in between."
There are groups which are atypical. Isolated ones, on the periphery of things, tend to get a bit strange. The world moves on.
One of the things I am grateful for in this place is that I've had to learn to stand on my own feet and realise that there are many more resources in Brisbane than 40 odd Subud people can muster.
I must say, like at the only World Congress I attended - Sydney 1989 -I have felt the power of the latihan in this forum. I am grateful to all of you for that.
My thanks and best wishes. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2007 - 08:40 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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| Luthfi56 O dear, this wasn't very nice said:
Quote:
In any case, Ismail, your posts are just a rehash of the same old thing over and over again, you are doing nothing, just posting on this board, so get real.
Some times its good to just try to see what people mean instead of slaping it down but I am maybe wrong.
06:51 AM greenlore. Yes, agree. It's so easy even a child can do it. 
Englishman
Quote:
Surely it's a good sign that nobody puts a post up saying we need to stick together in small groups until we fade away.
That is witty said, very good that nobody is saying it, just sad nearly everybody is doing it. 
10:28 AM Ismail
Quote:
..........Bapak's letters published both in the Pewarta and in the Helpers Guide advising a member not to see a psychiatrist but to surrender to God. ........
Yes, Ismail, that was maybe true for that person, it does not mean it true in all situations. Different advice has been give to other people.
You can never read what Bapak have said isolated, if so you will be very misinformed, but I guess you know that now.
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 16, 2007 - 08:53 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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I just read a Pewarta published in 1969 that sounds like the one to which Ismail referred. In it, Bapak suggests to a Subud member that sincere practice of the latihan would be more beneficial to him than psychological counseling.
Frankly, I don't know why they published those comments because you couldn't tell what the man's problem was (the one who asked the question). Perhaps he was mildly neurotic and counseling was just scratching his itch, so to speak. So, it's hard to say how useful Bapak's advice was... I guess only the guy he gave it to can tell you that.
By the way, Helen, I got the impression that our friend Ismail has dropped out of Subud. I hope he finds what he is looking for...  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 21, 2007 - 01:31 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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Ohh, I am soooo sad to hear that. 
I cant help it but every time I hear about someone left Subud, I wonder what when wrong and I have a bad feeling I know why.
I am not always right though.
When I was chairman way back I had a peek in the member register and it was more than three time so many opened as it was active members in the time Subud had existed there. I guess this is the case many places so think how many members we could have been, if..... |
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